With John's arrival in the Brave New World, we see the shortcomings of this society even more clearly as he becomes the moral "yardstick" by which we measure both these people and the world they have created.
Give several examples of what John finds especially upsetting and explain why he reacts the way he does.
As always, you may choose to ask/answer questions over these chapters by posting them here.
One thing that John doesn't do unlike all the people in Brave New World is take soma. Besides refusing to take it, he also doesn't think it's right when Dr. Shaw gives his mother, Linda, so many doses of soma because it shortens her life. John also finds it extremely upsetting when he is led by the Human Element Manager through the factory that somewhat "created" certain looks of their people. He was so appalled that he goes behind a bush and throws up. In the Beta-Minus geography room John sees on the screen a reenactment of his reservation's ceremony where they confess their sins to Jesus on a cross and are then whipped. The students all bellow with laughter and he is surprised and bewildered by it. John also never gives in and has sexual relations with Lenina. He also thinks it's appalling that all the people came to see him at Bernard's house and Bernard didn't even ask if HE wanted to see THEM. As a result, he doesn't come out of his room. Through all these examples we can see that Brave New World isn't really the "Brave New World" John was hoping for when leaving the reservation.
ReplyDelete-Ariana
John is extremely upset with the "movie" that Lenina saw with him. He finds the movie inappropriate, and tells Lenina she shouldn't watch that kind of stuff. He feels this way because he hasn't been conditioned. He has grown up with people that have moral values (except for his mother) so the movies don't affect him like they do for conditioned people.
ReplyDeleteJohn is also very upset by the way the people laugh at his religion. He believes in Jesus, and understands the religion. He doesn't know what would make his religion funny. He doesn't get it that his beliefs are not accepted here.
Nicholas Seymour
I have a question in chapter 11, i am not sure this even matters but i was just a little confused. It is when Bernard is going to talk to Helmholtz and he is bragging to him about all the girls that he had in the past week. And Helmholtz is just getting mad at him. I am not sure why he is getting mad and why Bernard says he will never speak to him again.
ReplyDeleteJohn doesn't fit in with his moral values. He doesn't like the movie he watched with Lenina due to the fact it was inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteHe thinks it's disgusting that people are decanted rather than born, and vomits when he sees the process.
It really annoys me that people call John "the Savage." He is much less of a savage than the people of this world.
I am also disgusted with Bernard's behavior. With his new job of being John's "guardian", it's pretty much just adding water and BAM!, he's popular.
The way he treated Holtzhelm, his old friend, makes me sick. He pretty much just ditched him for the popular way of life. Truthfully, I've been much happier in my own life having one or two friends rather than having twenty.
First, John doesn't like that everyone in Brave New World takes soma. He refuses to take it. When Dr. Shaw gives it to Linda, he doesn't think it is right because it shortens her life.
ReplyDeleteSecond, John is upset that people in the Brave New World make fun of his religion. He believes in Jesus and doesn't understand why no one else does.
Sydney, I agree that it is annoying when they call John " the savage." They are giving him no respect.
John disproves of taking soma. He refuses to take it, and hates it when Linda is taking it. He also doesn't like how they just let Linda "soma herself to death". He thinks that they should be able to do something. Another thing he doesn't like is the way that the children whip each other in their classes and then start to laugh. John doesn't think that Lenina should see "horrible things" such as the movie they saw at the feelies.
ReplyDeleteI have just a few questions:
What are the feelies?
I am slightly confused at the caste system they have, in the book there have been Alpha DoublePlus, and Epsilon Semi-Moron. I was just wondering what those odd names were.
-Liz Smith
"Murder kills only the individual-and, after all, what is an individual?"..."We can make a new one with the greatest ease-as many as we like."
ReplyDeleteThe DHC says this towards the beginning of chapter 10. It made me wonder, is murder legal in this society? If people have lost all respect, for human life, they no longer posses meaningful relationships, and the term "individualism" means nothing more to this society than love does, is the biggest crime of all no longer criminal?
Liz: I think feelies are along the lines of movies.
ReplyDeleteAnd I had a couple questions:
The director says, "Murder only kills the individual?" I don't really understand what he meant by this line?
Also, if the people have such a big problem with Linda and can't even stand to look at her why are they so interested in John if he's just as different from the people of the Brave New World?
And is Huxley trying to show how in even the Brave New World people are easily drawn toward and give in to temptations and become a completely different person? (My example was how Bernard was always different from the rest and thought there teachings were wrong. And then he turns to soma and thinks that he's on top of the world for having a bunch of girls in a week.)
-Maranda Metz
John does not like this "Brave New World" as much as he hoped and expected to. John refuses soma because he has seen how people act when they have it and he does not like it. In the Beta-Minus geography classroom the students watch a video of people whipping themselves in front of Jesus and they are laughing, but John is appalled because that is what they did on the Reservation as part of their religious beliefs. John also gets upset when Bernard keeps showing him to other people because he is a "savage".
ReplyDeleteMaranda- I think what is meant by "Murder only kills the individual" is that it is not really that big of a deal. If one person is murdered then it makes no difference to the society, they can make a person to replace very quickly and efficiently.
ReplyDeleteI am kind of confused, is saying father not as profane as saying mother because the father never actually gave birth to the child, or is there more than that?
John gets upset a lot in this part of the book. He doesn't like being shown to everyone and called "savage." He also doesnt like that everyone take soma, and often! He is upset when everyone laughed at him for saying "my father!" to the Director. He didn't like the movie that Lenina took him to where the point of the film was passion is wrong. He wants passion. Kind of like Bernard used to. He found the lower caste people (who all looked the same) appalling and he threw up out of disgust.
ReplyDeleteWhen they showed him the video of those whipping themselves for Jesus he was mortified that that ritual could be taken as funny to anyone when it was so serious to them on the reservation.
Everyone starts hysterically laughing when they show the video of the people bowing and confessing their sins before Jesus on the Cross. John did not like this at all. He was confused as to why everyone was laughing. He is so used to people doing this all the time back at the Indian Reservation. He was also upset at how everyone thinks they belong to everyone else. He probably thinks this way because of what he saw happening to Linda when she took in so many men as her own.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: On the bottom of page 177, Mustapha Mond says "What fun it would be, if one didn’t have to think about happiness." I was just wondering what this quote meant, because it really confused me.
As said above Bernard doesn't like the Brave new World. He sticks out like a sore thumb with his quirky little morals in a society that has none. He doesn't approve of Soma. He doesn't approve of the movie he saw with Lenina.( really what was that about anyways??) He doesn't approve at laughing at religion. He doesn't approve of parties. Especially if they happen to be hosted by Bernard. Especially especially if Bernard hooked him up with some ladies that john couldn't care about while Bernard is running around like a prig with an inflated head. So basically, John does not approve of Bernard, EXCEPT when Bernard is once again a social misfit and wallowing in a pool of pity.
ReplyDeleteHowever, John does approve of pining away for the beautiful Lenina in that sad little way of his- thinking he is not worthy enough. Sweet, but really is it necessary? Is Lenina really going to be able to tell if a manis worthy enough for her??
Questions!
~What is with Linda and the soma overdose issues?? Is she intentionaly trying to slowly kill herself?
~ Sort of unrelated... on page 158 when the Station Master was talking about the Bombay Green Rocket and how fast it could go with John... When John said "Still, Ariel could put a girdle round the earth in forty minutes", was he talking about the wind-spirit thing from the Tempest?
~ I was confused when the Provos was saying something about only there were only individuals not twins in a certain area? SOmething about the Upper School?
John soon comes to realize the "Brave New World" isn't for him. First, he doesn't like the thought of soma. He doesn't like it when the Dr. is giving his mom such a high dosage of it. He also thought the movie about the Blonde Beta was horrible. He thinks it's horrible because it shows the effect of the conditioning, and not being raised there, he has a different point of view when watching it. He also soon realizes that Bernard is just showing him off as some creature to the rest of the "Brave New World", and after that and being called a "savage" his whole time there, he decides that he isn't coming out of his room.
ReplyDeleteJohn doesn't agree with the Brave New World Society. He doesn't believe in soma and refuses to take it. He is protective of and worried about his mother and goes to see her often to make sure she's okay, but mother is a bad word in their society. People from the Indian Reservation aren't respected, and John gets confused at why the kids laugh at a video of them. He is appalled that Lenina would choose to watch an immoral "feely". He has an extremely different (almost opposite) lifestyle, and he feels that mostly everything in Brave New World is wrong.
ReplyDeleteANSWER to Katie: When Bernard boasts, Helmholtz seems to be in a sad/mad state (probably getting annoyed with Bernard), and Bernard interprets this as envy. Bernard is very high-headed at this point and he is rather the one that gets mad because he thinks Helmholtz is jealous, and he reacted by saying he would never talk to him again. They are both walking on eggshells and overly sensitive at the moment...but as we later find out they forgive eachother.
ReplyDeleteANSWER to Maranda: Because John is different, people are interested in him. And may I add, he is not as bad looking as Linda and is curious about this "other place" in which he has never experienced before.
And yes, Huxley is showing how the conditioned people are not perfect and have "mistakes" in their making (ex. Lenina's feelings of emptiness when John left her after the feely).
ANSWER to Mollie: As we read before, Linda missed the sensation of Soma. She is taking an adequate amount of it due to the years of abcense from it. Of course, the Docter and society also encourage the overdose(apart from John). The World State's attitude is that human beings are things that should be "used up until they wear out."
INTERPRETATION: "Murder kills only the individual and, after all what is an individual?" An individual is based on his/her participation in the economy and obedience as member of a caste. The World State controls all aspects of society and individuals must meet demands needed. One person gone will not matter, because two more can be made twice as better.
Nicks crime question had me thinking awhile...but I think the World State has laws on murder, afterall, they want a sterilized and orderly society. I don't think they have a lot of problems with that though, seeing as they can condition them to think just about anything.
John is opposed to everything about the New Society. He doesn't believe in taking soma, and objects to giving Linda soma. John doesn't think that it is fair to shorten her life. John doesn't enjoy the movie that he watches with Lenina. He also does not appreciate the students making fun of the Old World customs. John enjoys to read, but the New World doesn't allow it. The reason that John acts in these ways is because he hasn't been conditioned as much as everyone else in the Brave New World society. He also has been isolated from modern civilization, so he doesn't know how these people act, and what their customs are.
ReplyDeleteJohn is surprised that the New Society is so different and so much worse than what he expected. He dislikes that the doctor gives Linda so much soma, they now have no relationship because she is always on a soma holiday. He always doesn't appreciate when people laughed at religion.
ReplyDelete--Cassie Shedenhelm
John does not like the movie he is shown and just seems alone everywhere he goes. He is treated like an exotic zoo animal. He has a dislike to soma and refuses to take it and even tells Bernard how he would rather be unhappy than their fake happiness. When he is reading Shakespeare to Helmholtz and helping with propaganda , Helmholtz ignores and thinks the passion in Shakespeare is pointless, all he wants is violent. I feel like they will try and spend propaganda through Helmholtz's writings and John will try and change people but in the end will be swallowed by society and sent off to a adult reconditioning center. Huxley scares and disgusts us with so much from this book he probably wants to tell us that once society gets this way, there is no going back.
ReplyDeleteThroughout these chapters we see how John is an outcast to the brave new world. One example would be how he reacts to the use of soma in their world. He doesn't understand why they would want to take it when it shortens their life. Another example would be when he watched the movie with Lenina. He thought it was horrible and doesn't like the thought of it. One last example would be how he is called a savage this shows that not only does he feel like an outcast to this brave new world but the others also see him as an outcast to their world.
ReplyDelete-Brooke Walding
In this chapter John feels like such an outcast. There are many examples that show how John is an outcast in these chapters. One is that he doesn't like the movie that is watches with Lenina. He thinks that it is inapropraite and disgusting. He also dislikes soma and doesnt think that Linda should be taking so much of it. He is concerned about her and her health. Threw this you you see that John has not been conditioned at all making him an outcast.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter Huxley hold the Brave New World up to John for measure in a number of places. First in his relationship with Lenina. We see how much farther and deeper John's love goes for her than any of the other relationships we've seen so far. The rest of the guys just don't measure up. We see the addiction to soma held up to John's sobriety. Those addicts just don't measure up.
ReplyDeleteWas anyone else confused on what was going on at that movie?